Recently I wrote a piece for Greenpointers about Bamonte’s Restaurant on Withers Street. A number of people reprimanded me and posted that the famous eatery was not in Greenpoint, but was really in Williamsburg. The argument over the location of the iconic Italian restaurant raises a larger,very controversial question: What is the exact borderline between Williamsburg and Greenpoint?
Ask ten people in North Brooklyn and you will get at least eleven different answers. Some borders are not in dispute. Newtown Creek separates us from Queens to the north and from Maspeth to the East. The East River clearly forms our western border. Now, when we talk about the southern boundary, the border disputes begin.
However, before we talk about borders, let’s discuss a time when separation of the two neighborhoods was a lot clearer (we posted some historical maps a couple years ago if you want to look in more detail). At one time, a large body of water called Bushwick Creek divided the two areas. Greenpointers often traveled to Williamsburg by skiff over Bushwick Creek. The tiny Bushwick Inlet is all that remains of the creek, which once covered most of McCarren Park and whose headwaters almost reached the corner of Bedford Avenue and Nassau Avenue. The only land bridge that existed ran along the present day Driggs Avenue through McCarren Park. In the 1850s and 1860s the need for land for shipyards dramatically changed the area. Huge amounts of landfill were dumped to fill in the swampy area and water that once covered the area from Meserole Avenue and Franklin to North 10th Street.
By the early 1870s, Greenpoint, which had once been isolated from the rest of Brooklyn by Bushwick Creek, now touched Williamsburg. Quickly, there was conflict between the boys of the two areas, which featured large, pitched battles of rock-throwing children. Around 1901 McCarren Park began to take shape as buildings between the two areas were condemned to create the park. For some, the southern end of the park—bounded by North 12th Street and Bayard Street—became the border of the two areas, but others disputed this demarcation claiming that Greenpoint ran further south.
Some claim that Meeker Avenue and The Brooklyn-Queens Expressway, which was built between the Kosciuszko Bridge and Williamsburg in 1950, serve as neighborhood dividers, but others disagree. They point out that Greenpoint icon Mae West was born on Herbert Street, south of the Meeker Avenue divide and that celebrated Williamsburg author Henry Miller talked about walking to Devoe Street in Greenpoint to visit the house of a young woman there he had fallen in love with, even though almost everyone today calls Devoe Street Williamsburg. People also point out that notorious Mafioso Sonny Black Napolitano called himself a Greenpointer, though he lived on Withers Street, on the south side of the BQE.
Gentrification has also helped to muddy the border picture. Many newer Greenpoint residents identify their residences as Wiliamsburg because they perceive that area to be hipper than Greenpoint. Just to make things absolutely confusing, Google Maps entered the dispute with a map showing an area east of McCarren Park, including Lorimer Street, Manhattan Avenue and Leonard as part of Williamsburg, while also showing that Greenpoint extends to North 10th street in Williamsburg. Some Greenpointers were outraged by the 2014 Google Map and saw it as an evil omen of the domination and rapid spread of hipster Williamsburg. As we all know, real estate agents are redrawing many borders in New York City to boost their commissions, so in the end who is right?
Examining the controversy there is no clear answer where the boundaries between the two areas lie. Even born and raised Greenpointers will argue about the area’s borders without agreement. My final answer; it just depends on whom you ask.
West of Mccarren Park, I’d place the border more along North 14th street than North 12th. I tend to think of places like Berry Park/The Gutter as being in Williamsburg, not Greenpoint.
I was born in Greenpoint and stayed there until I married. I always felt Greenpoint was up to McCarren Park.
I grew up on Monitor st. Near Richardson st across from St Cecelia school . I always assumed that Frost st was the border.
My family is from Greenpoint for generations both on the Italian and Slavic side. Yes, that was another description of neighborhoods. The Puerto Ricans and Irish were West of Greenpoint Avenue. LOL
Our family always considered the North numbered streets as “The Northside”, part of Williamsburg. Grand Avenue was the separating line between Grenepoint and Bushwick until Union and then that was Williamsburg.
It’s funny that Mae West was supposedly born on Herbert St. I had always heard she was born above Teddys on Berry.
Years ago there was Greenpoint, the Northside and the Southside. I believe all three were considered Williamsburg.
Ask the POST OFFICE. Check your ZIP CODE!
I love your articles… they make my week!
Ask Kenneth Jackson, editor of the Encyclopedia of New York City. Bordered on the south by North 7th Street. Anyone who tells you the park or the pool are in Williamsburg are real estate agents or assholes, or both.
This, a thousand times this.
I was born and raised in Greenpoint and my family still lives here as do I for over 50 years. There are many self-imposed borders and does the story states it is true that it depends on who you ask regarding which answer you receive. But I do believe that the right answer is one that I’ve heard most of my life and was actually on the maps at one point in time. Even though everyone considers the north side Williamsburg and anything across meeker Avenue for that matter, Williamsburg as well dot-dot. Williamsburg does not start until you cross metropolitan Avenue going towards the south side.there for metropolitan Avenue has always been the real border between Greenpoint and Williamsburg The way I know It.